We address Sullins’ (2023b) response to our reply (Strizzi & Di Nucci, 2023b): we believe that the issue at the core of our disagreement is conceptual, and it hinges on the use of the term “Sexual Orientation Change Efforts (SOCE).” Sullins (2023b) claims that there is a distinction between “SOCE” and “conversion therapy.” If one searches “Sexual Orientation Change Efforts” in the American Psychological Association’s (APA) Dictionary of Psychology, the result is “see conversion therapy”...